Your Complete Guide to the Chicago Blues Scene
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Your Complete Guide to the Chicago Blues Scene |
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JOHN PRIMER INTERVIEW:
Part 2
“Blues ain’t nothin’ but the mind”
The world famous
Chicago blues great speaks his mind on Muddy Waters, Magic Slim, The
Rolling Stones, young blues rockers, blues, roots and soul music
by Linda Cain
When it comes to traditional Chicago style blues, John Primer is as real
as it gets. He even named his group The Real Deal Blues Band. As a teen,
Primer moved from his home in Mississippi to Chicago in 1963 during the
“Golden Era” of Chicago blues and quickly became a part of the scene
here. In 1974 he joined the house band at Theresa’s Lounge and
eventually became the bandleader. For seven years, he got to play with
blues originators like Sammy Lawhorn, Junior Wells, Buddy Guy, Smokey
Smothers, Lonnie Brooks and more.
John became known for his guitar skills (lead, rhythm, slide) along with
his powerful vocals and band leading skills. In 1979, Primer was asked
to join Willie Dixon’s band, the Chicago Blues All Stars. Six months
later, Muddy Waters heard him and recruited Primer to serve as his
guitarist, bandleader and opening act. After Muddy’s passing in 1983, he
joined internationally popular Magic Slim & The Teardrops and stayed
with them for 13 years.
In 1995, John formed his own band and released 16 of his own albums,
while touring all over the world. He also served as a session player on
countless albums by other artists. In total, he has played on at least
85 recordings, including his own releases. He’s been nominated twice for
a Grammy and has won several prestigious blues awards.
We first sat down to talk with the world famous blues artist on July 18,
2019 before his show at Hey Nonny in Arlington Hts, IL.
John Primer told us about his upcoming CD with Bob Corritore,
The Gypsy Woman Told Me, and reminisced about his storied career
playing with Muddy Waters, Magic Slim, The Rolling Stones and more. He
had just returned from a major festival in Cazorla, Spain where he
played his own set on one night and then returned to perform “Angie” and
“Let It Bleed” with the Chicago Plays The Stones Tribute, featuring
Billy Branch and Ronnie Baker Brooks. Primer had a busy summer and fall
tour schedule coming up and things were going great for the very
energetic 74-year-old blues man.
At the time, Chicago was still swept up in Rolling Stones mania, as the
band had kicked off its No Filter Tour in Chicago at Soldier Field in
late June with two sold out shows. The Stones 2016 release,
Blue and Lonesome, was a
tribute to Chicago blues, the music that gave the band its name (from
Muddy’s song “Mannish Boy”). In 2018, Chicago blues artists, including
John Primer, returned the favor with the concept album
Chicago Plays The Stones,
which features Chicago blues style interpretations of famous Rolling
Stone songs. The CD, which includes Chicago artists like Buddy Guy,
Jimmy Burns, Billy Boy Arnold, Billy Branch, Ronnie Baker Brooks along
with cameos by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, was so popular it
warranted a live tour on the international fest and club circuit.
Of all the Chicago blues artists who appear on the CD and the tour, John
Primer is especially qualified, having served as lead guitarist in Muddy
Waters band. He was playing with Muddy and the band at the Checkerboard
Lounge on November 22, 1981 when the Rolling Stones made a South Side
pilgrimage to sit in with their blues hero. Primer, who was 36 at the
time, recalls the occasion:
Q. What stands out the most in your memory about when you played with
the Stones and Muddy at the Checkerboard? I remember police barricades
to keep the fans away from the club.
JP: I
didn’t quite understand what was going on at the time, but there were
rumors going around. Rick Kreher (guitarist) said something about the
Stones might show up, he talked to Mojo Buford (harp player) about that
because a lot of times they’d be in town and they were gonna show up,
but they never showed up. And they wanted to see Lefty Dizz, ‘cause they
were crazy about Lefty.
Q. So there were all these rumors, but then they really showed up. You
must have been surprised. And what did you think?
JP: I
seen them comin’ in. Oh, man what’s with them? It was like a whole
party.
Q. They didn’t seem like your typical South Siders, with their entourage
and rock star looks.
JP: The
band was playing and we called Muddy up and then then the Rolling Stones
came in. And they sat down in the front and they was drinkin’ -- bourbon
and whiskey.
Q. Yeah, they’re known for that! There was a DVD of the documentary of
them with Muddy at the Checkboard.
JP: Yes,
I have that. It’s a great film.
Q. And how about the Stones tribute to Chicago Blues, called
Blue and Lonesome? Have you heard that?
JP: Yeah
I have the CD. It’s the Stones, man! Doin’ their thing their way. The
way they doin’ it is great! It’s a good CD.
I like
the way they do it. Couldn’t be any better. If I did it, I’d do it the
same way. It’s traditional blues. They know how to do it.
Q. Mick and Keith bonded over a Muddy album and named their band after a
verse in a Muddy Waters song. They started out as a blues band.
JP: What
can you say? That’s the Rolling Stones. They sound great!
Q. And Mick and Keith play on
Chicago Plays the Stones. Have you heard any feedback from any of
the Stones about what they think of this album?
JP: They
heard it. Well, they know who
I am, but I never had contact with them. They know everybody who played
with Muddy.
Q. Did you go see them at Soldier Field?
No, but
Lisa (wife/manager) was out of town and I stayed home with my daughter.
Q. Joseph Morganfield (Muddy’s son) was there and he got to go
backstage. And they were reminiscing about the Checkerboard. They’ve
always given respect to Chicago blues artists.
JP: Yes,
they definitely do.
Q. I’m sure you learned a lot from Muddy. He was a big influence on you.
What did you learn.
JP: I
learned how to play the slide – play it right! I was going about it the
wrong way. I was taught by his guitar player Sammy Lawhorn.
But (as a
child) I first started out with one string (attached) on the side of my
Grandmother’s house. Like a diddley bow. I couldn’t do it right, but I
didn’t want to give up. I started listening to Muddy Waters records and
I really wanted to do it.
But he
played one way when I first heard him, and then he played a different
way towards the end (of his life).
I learned
the slide lick from Muddy. He influenced me a LOT. I just looked,
learned and listened. I figured out what he was doing. He would put the
capo on, and I learned how to play with the capo. And without the capo,
in any key you want.
Q. I’m sure you learned a lot when you were with Magic Slim.
JP: Yeah,
I learned a lot from Magic Slim. I was with him 13 years.
Q. What were the best lessons you learned from Slim?
JP:
To be on time. When to leave home to get to the gig on time.
Q. When Slim moved to Nebraska, is that when you formed your own band?
JP: Well,
I was always playing with the Teardrops band, like at the Checkerboard.
And Slim would come and go.
But he
taught me a lot of stuff. I learned to
never compete with him
playing the guitar back then. When I tried it, he just put me under the
table! And I never tried it again (he chuckles). That was back at Blue
Chicago.
Q. People who saw you at Blue Chicago would always ask, “Who is this
great guitarist playing with Magic Slim?”
JP: Slim
and I learned a lot from each other. He would tell people that he
learned a lot from me. I learned a lot from him.
Q. So it was mutually beneficial.
JP: Yes,
for 13 years. I never had no problems. He never cussed me out or argued
and I never argued with him or nothing. I knew Slim, I knew his ways and
how he was. And Nick too (Nick Holt, Slim’s brother on bass).
Q. And how about his son Shawn Holt?
JP: He’s
a good guy. I played on his first CD. He’s a great musician. He’s got a
long way to go, got a lot to learn a lot about the business, but he’s a
great guy.
Q. How old is he now?
JP:
Probably in his 30s. I knew him when he was a little small kid.
Q. What advice would you give to him or other aspiring blues musicians?
JP: Keep
the charge going. Don’t let it down. Keep it going for the blues. Yeah.
Do your best. There’s a lot of competition out there. But don’t let it
get you down. Keep on doing it.
Some
people really love blues, some people don’t really LOVE blues, but
they’ll listen to it. But hey, it’s alright.
So if
you’re doing what you love, keep doing it and be well.
Bassist Danny
O’Connor enters the Hey Nonny green room.
JP: See
this young man Danny O’Connor?
He played with Magic Slim, too. For six years. And my drummer
Lenny Media played with Magic Slim too. So I got part of the Teardrops.
All three of us played with one of the MASTERS! Magic Slim!
Back in
the day, Buddy Guy and Junior Wells had the best band. But then me and
Magic Slim came and took over! After Buddy and Junior split up.
They had
two stars, and then people would say (about us): “it’s great to see two
stars, two great guitar players at the same time!”
Q. I saw on your bio
that you have worked with some young stars, Gary Clark, Jr. and Derek
Trucks. Their music is blues based, but it’s very eclectic.
JP: Yeah. They’re doing it their way.
Q. What do you think
of these type of bands that play blues rock and blues fusion? Coming
from the point of view of an artist who plays real deal blues?
JP: Well they gotta crawl before they can walk. They gotta get to it.
They are young, but they gotta play their way into it. Work their way up
to it. It ain’t something
you can just come by every day. You gotta have a mind to do it. The
older they get the more they will pay attention to it.
But they’re doing a great job, keeping it all alive.
But all nationalities and no matter what color they are, they’re playing
it. And it’s a good thing for the blues. We all learn different types of
blues and other types of music. And you can play blues and add anything
you want to add to it. And still call it blues. But hey it still comes
from the blues.
But most of ‘em, they’ll settle down with it. Cause they’re workin’ at
it. It’s in the mind. Blues aint nothing but the mind. They’ll get to
it. It’s a good thing for the blues.
Q. Those bands are
bringing new, younger people to the blues, even though they aren’t
playing real blues like you.
JP: They’re playing it their way. Doing their own thing. Can’t knock ‘em
for that. It is what it is.
Q. What is your
definition of real deal blues,
since that is the name of your band? Is it like saying old school blues
or traditional blues?
JP: I’m just playing what I learned. Traditional blues. What the old
guys laid down. I didn’t create it.
All the old guys back where I lived in the late ‘40s and ‘50s, that’s
what I learned when they laid the ground down for us to keep going. And
there’s no more creation like that anymore. You can’t hear that now.
They laid it all down. That was it. A one time thing. Blues. Even rock
and roll don’t sound that same as it used to.
The only thing that sounds the same is jazz, blues, gospel.
Q. Roots music.
JP: But even gospel can get out of hand, with horns and all that. But
back in the day, it was a capella.
Q. The voices were
the instruments.
JP: Yeah. So I tell all the
young generation to listen to the blues. You can learn it. You can get
it. Get the foundation and go from there.
Q. You did some
creative mixing of styles -- of blues and soul -- on your latest album,
Soul of a Blues Man, that is kind of unique. Because when it comes
to soul music, with artists like Aretha Franklin, Otis Clay, Tyrone
Davis and Otis Redding, they emphasize the singing. Soul music isn’t
about the guitar and there is never a harmonica. So you broke from that
soul music tradition.
JP: Yeah.
Q. For you, is there
a difference in how you sing and play blues music versus soul music? Or
does it all flow together?
JP: It all flows together for me. I get the same feelin’ whatever I
play, soul music or blues music, I get the same feelin’.
For all music. You can’t just get up there and play it. You gotta
have a feelin’ to play it. And it’s hard to come by for some people.
They just play it just to get the sound and show you what they can do
with their fingers and that they can improvise and all that.
Q. Technique
JP: Yeah technique.
Q. What was your
concept for Soul of a Blues Man.
Did you make a conscious effort to showcase your singing?
It’s the same feeling that I heard from those guys (the artists he
covered). I’m not them, but it’s the same form. I’m putting my own
feeling in it.
Q. And then your
arrangements had guitar and harmonica.
JP: Yeah.
Q. So it’s different.
On your blues albums everyone talks about your guitar. But on this,
everyone talks about your singing.
JP: Well, I can sing any type of music.
Q. Who are your
favorite soul singers, your biggest influences?
JP: Well, really no favorite guy. They were all great. Bobby Bland,
Johnnie Taylor, Tyrone Davis, Al Green.
Q. Can you tell out
about your future projects? You and Bob Corritore have a new CD coming
out. Can you tell us what to expect?
JP: It’s Chicago traditional blues. A lot of great people played on it.
John gets the call for showtime and off we go to the Hey Nonny showroom
for a packed house waiting to hear some real deal blues from one of the
Masters.
We pick up our conversation with Mr. Primer in early 2020.
Click HERE to read about the new
CD and about what happened to John Primer & The Real Deal Blues Band
during the pandemic.
John
Primer’s Blues in My Basement streams at:
Facebook Live & Instagram Live, Sundays, 3-4 p.m. CST
https://www.facebook.com/john.primer.378
Tips:
PayPal.Me/JohnPrimerBlues
Donations:
https://www.facebook.com/donate/522283868473343/
Now, more than ever, musicians need to sell their merchandise to
survive. Fortunately, Primer has an excellent new CD available on May 1.
You can order The Gypsy Woman Told
Me here:
https://www.johnprimerblues.com/store
Or send a check for $25 made out to:
Blues House Productions
1909 Fairfield Rd.
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